[noelsarchs]

Originally Posted by jdunford

LOL. Thanks. That -26 thwump made the lights dim.

I almost had to turn the lights completely out on you too in support of JM and Jamby, but then decided that another -26 would be overkill.

[vai777]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

Wow, I'm amazed how folks have no qualms about ripping off artwork... I hate to bring it up, but does anyone remember how we first heard of PI? They were labeling paulsons with NFL registered logos. Joe did some major damage control and got back into favor...amazingly. The integrity of the site must be of foremost concern, if there is any way this site could be brought into a suit, it would be down in a day, then where would we be? The willingness of Joe to print copyrighted material is the major issue, before you know it there would be a group buy...and if anyone got wind, bye bye Chiptalk.

Come on folks, you've got to know this is wrong, hey I'm all for sticking it to the man, but when there could be collateral damage that takes out this site, there's no question.

They couldnt touch the site. Freedom of speech. They would need to find proof of the chips being made and then prosecute the offender, if they wanted to. Believe me chiptalk wouldnt be harmed.That would be like someone suing E harmony because their relationship didnt work out.

[vai777]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

It is stealing. I don't mean to be a jerk, but this is what copyrighted images are. A copyright isn't just a imaginary word. It means something, if it didn't everyone would have been making Star Wars toys, but they can't because it would be ILLEGAL to copy the images.

You can use the images for personal use,in whatever way you like. Technically Joe could make these chips for himself, then gift them away. The reciever could gift joe some cash. No transaction no proof, no problem.

[noelsarchs]

Originally Posted by vai777

That would be like someone suing E harmony because their relationship didnt work out.

If I could, I would sue eHarmony! How dare they set me up with some girl in Albuquerque who thinks that my chips are tiddy winks, hates poker, has a 42 " TV and never turned it on, wouldn't let me watch the Packer game, etc.

[vai777]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

Sure and throw ethics right out the window.

WE PLAY POKER FOR CHRIST SAKES !!!!! WE LOOK FOR SUCKERS AND TRY AND TAKE THEIR MONEY. WHATS SO ETHICAL ABOUT THAT.

[dad604]

Originally Posted by palmimports

At a certain level this is true- for the corporations that have a legal dept they spit out cease and desist letters and hope the problem goes away. Usually it does.

One could argue the kid that buys a starwars sticker and slaps it on mom's car has no right to do that-when you purchase a product image you have no automatic rights of full conveyance whereby you can post it on a website or publically display it- but who in their right mind gets this deep into it.

I think the main point was- alot of people with printers are making labels for their poker chips. It's TECHNICALLY wrong but done every day- ya aint gonna stop it.

The line we see is when it's done to make a profit- I'm not talking about me covering my vinyl and ink costs to print 300 chips for a CT member- were talking taking copyright artwork and making and selling starwars chips.
There IS a difference whilst not in the legal sense- legally it's wrong-we all agree to this-

If my good friend wants me to print a few corvette images for his dice poker chips- I am going to. If he says- I THINK these would sell well at the local car shows- can ya make me 25 sets- this aint gonna happen.

Thats the line WE draw- right-wrong- legal- illegal- I dont really care.
I suffer the consequences if it becomes an issue. Same here- I suffer if what I do is a problem.

Whether Chiptalk as a site condones this- accepts it as life- doesnt like it but tolerates it- or totally disagrees and puts an end to it- thats the site's problem.

In the meantime- were getting signed releases and consent forms- anyone who has work on file with us has already receeved this- this is the best WE can do.

Amen
( where's my daum xanax when i need it most!)

I am not a lawyer but let me run this thro. I am a Canadian and I know for a fact that Canadian laws regarding copywrite are different from the US (not as tough in some case as court cases have proven. Now for a music cd, if you own the cd, you can make as many copies as you want for your personal use but can not sell or give to friends. You have paid for the right to enjoy that music. By the same logic, you have purchased an image (poster?) of any Star Wars character or any other copy writed image, do you still have the right to copy that copywrited material for your own personal use? The music is copywrited, the image is copywrited, what is the difference if you don't sell it or give it to someone?

Of course, most of the members are arguing US copywrite laws. The laws are not the same in other countries. Even in Canada, where the laws have their beginning from the English system, copywrite laws are different. The Canadian courts have said that I can do a lot more with copywrited stuff than the Americans can. If two similar countries can have such different intreptation of copywrite laws, can you imagine the difference under Napolean law or the law in China?

I have not done so yet (and most likely will never do it) but I would not feel guilty in printing an image of a Star War character (or Superman or Batman, etc) and labelling a personal chip set as I have paid (and lots of money in some cases) for that image. I also would not use a member's design from this site unless I receive permission from such a member as I have never paid any compensation for the image.

[vai777]

Originally Posted by Matthew

This isn't about the Star Wars chips. It's the cumulative effect of nothing but copies, rehashes, tributes, replicas, basically crap that is being made. But people want cheap, they get cheap and there will always be someone there to make them with no originality.

1. Not everyone is a graphic artist.
2. People want whats popular.
3. What do you care if people make tribute chips
4. Why does it matter if people want cheap.
5. Frankly I hope the casino chip market crashes so the prices come down and everyone can afford real chips.
6. Its a free country

[vai777]

Originally Posted by UW85

Wow, how on earth did I miss this thread? I'm physically exhausted after reading 12 pages all at once but at the same time I'm glad I did so I could follow, as best as my brain could, the thoughts & flow of everyone. My emotions have run up and down like a yo-yo. Just a couple things overall.

I understand how some people in life are very passionate about one thing but could give a rip about another. Clearly many who seem upset on this thread are those that care deeply about artwork & copywrite. Yet, most of those people seem to have no problem sharing music. Make a copy of a CD for a buddy, or whomever -- sure, it's not THAT big of a deal. You cannot deny you are a hypocrite -- you simply can't have it both ways because you have no passion about the music industry.

IF you honestly believe , "Even one copywritten image cannot be used" then you must also believe "Even one song shared is wrong." How about us teachers who photocopy a great lesson here or there from a resource book that clearly states it is not to be copied -- ever done that for any of you fellow educators? Yes, really? Well then stop stomping your feet about the artwork issue. I'm tired of people who can only see what they want to see -- they refuse to open their minds and understand their is a bigger picture. Have passion about what's important to you, that's great, but you CAN be a lot less quick to throw stones at people who don't share your passion (such as copywrite law).

And as for the "f-ing" NEG rep stuff. Clearly, and I mean CRYSTAL clearly this system is not working as intended. The collective time wasted on it is insane. I believe with all my heart it had nobel beginnings but it IS broken and needs to go away. The NEG rep system does just the opposite of what I think it was intended. It stops people from posting their thoughts, it hurts many CT'ers to the core and I truly think CT would be a better place w/o it. Keep the positive rep in place -- that does nothing but good, but lose the neg.

Finally, Joe -- you da man. I totally understand where you are at mentally (well, I'm trying my best) and get why you are saying good-bye as a sponser. It is a loss for CT and one that should throw up a RED flag.

PEOPLE WHO NEG REP SHOULD KILL THEMSELVES.

[noelsarchs]

Originally Posted by vai777

5. Frankly I hope the casino chip market crashes so the prices come down and everyone can afford real chips.

Compared to last year, the chip market for real and obsolete casino chips has crashed due to all these new chips coming out.

If it weren't for all these chips, the prices on these authentic casino chips would have kept going up.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by dad604

I am not a lawyer but let me run this thro. I am a Canadian and I know for a fact that Canadian laws regarding copywrite are different from the US (not as tough in some case as court cases have proven. Now for a music cd, if you own the cd, you can make as many copies as you want for your personal use but can not sell or give to friends. You have paid for the right to enjoy that music. By the same logic, you have purchased an image (poster?) of any Star Wars character or any other copy writed image, do you still have the right to copy that copywrited material for your own personal use? The music is copywrited, the image is copywrited, what is the difference if you don't sell it or give it to someone?

Good post, dad. I was going to mention this a while ago, but then thouht, "Ya, but the Americans just aren't going to give a dang..." In the US, are they legally allowed to buy a CD, rip the music to, say, MP3, put that on their iPod or computer or whatever, and listen to it? We can in Canada and I thought they could in the US... but maybe I'm mistaken.

Another thing (a little off topic; has nothing to do with poker chips, but I'm curious...), only recently, a company can state the name of their competitor and do comparisons (soda pop taste-tests, laundry detergent "see the difference", etc.) in TV and radio commercials. It used to be "Here's (our brand) and here's 'another popular name brand' (or 'brand X')", but now they can say "Here's Coke and here's Pepsi" or "Here's Tide and here's ABC" or whatever (most common on TV in Toronto lately is "Here's Quizno and here's Subway"). Is that just a Canadian thing, or is that in the US too?