[7thSeat]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

Now let's all repeat the Non-Conformists' Oath:

"I promise to be different!"

"I promise to be unique!"

"I promise not to repeat things other people say!"

Good!



Steve Martin, sometime in the 70's

I can promise to try my very best anyway.

This thread is growing and it might be in place to sum things up.?

I think most of the arguement on both sides are logically allright and I guess we see the matter with different eyes depending if we are single chip collectors first and home poker chip set buers last or the other way around.
(Of course there are other variables as well)

Can someone formulate a code to which we can all take a stand? (If this is allready done I have to admit I missed it among all the other thoughts in this thread).

I like Ten's aproach that the code not shall be a CT law but mearly an ethical agreement among those who like it.

7th

[the3rd]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

Now let's all repeat the Non-Conformists' Oath:

"I promise to be different!"

"I promise to be unique!"

"I promise not to repeat things other people say!"

Good!



Steve Martin, sometime in the 70's

If only you thought of that yourself, you copycat. Too funny.
I think some people are overthinking this. Should the site promote originality over replication? Probably. Should everyone have to abide by it? Probably not. My two cents were here a minute ago?

[TheMightyJim2k]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

I have repeated several times and I don't think people are getting my point... It's not a legal issue. I'm not talking about "getting away with it" without getting sued.

I'm saying, is it right or is it wrong to copy other designs?

What if you are a collector, not a player, and you have some very valuable REAL WSOP chips? Would you want the market flooded with 200,000 replicas (tributes?)?

I didnt speak up earlier when Gaming Falls mentioned this, but I think this is a somewhat moot point. The baseball card market has been flooded with "replicas" of the most famous and expensive baseball cards you can buy. These replicas are actually baseball cards with the exact same look, size, info, etc as the most expensive old cards from sometimes as long as 100 years ago. They are closer replicas to the original baeball cards than the WSOP copy-cat chips are to the real Bud Jones used by Harrahs.

However the baseball card market isn't even slightly affected by these. That is because the value of the card is purely in the eye of the beholder. It is simply a piece of cardboard, and only worth $50,000 if that is what you are willing to pay for it. Because of this the knockoffs have no appeal to collectors, and the people that buy the knockoffs were never in the market for the real thing. These are entirely separate market groups that rarely interesect, and really don't purchase or look at these products in the same way.

Poker chips are almost exactly the same. I personally do not collect poker chips. I have no casino chips on hand. I would never pay more than a buck for a chip anyway (unless I could go cash it out for whatever I paid for it), and I think there are a lot of people on here like me. I'm not ever going to buy some $$$ real WSOP chips, BUT I might buy some knockoffs to play with my buddies in our own tourney.

This is no knock on the collectors. I'm purely illustrating that the market is ruled by and supply and demand. The demand for replicas is from the casual fan, and the demand for the authentic chips is from collectors. These are caused by different market segments and impacted/by different supplies, and their impact on availability and price points should be unrelated.

Because the price and value of these collectors chips are entirely based on what people are willing to pay for them, my desire and subsequent purchase of copy-cats or replicas will have no impact on the market. I was never willing to pay anything before, and I'm not willing to pay anything now.

If you want to make this code and have people sign it go ahead, but understand that it is unlikely to affect the market for collectors (who only want the real thing and not copies) but it will adversely affect the market for casual players and fans of chips who just want to get a cool set at a reasonable price. And frankly I think most of the people on this board fall into that category.

[STANK1000]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

I don't think people are getting my point... It's not a legal issue. I'm not talking about "getting away with it" without getting sued.

I'm saying, is it right or is it wrong to copy other designs?

i'm not trying to speak for Ten, but it seems to me that he wasn't trying to turn this into some huge political debate, but more or less trying to politely ask us here at CT to just try to stick to more original designs and leave the originals be.

[WolfPack]

Well I am of the opinion that a personal set should be just that personal. That's why I didn't get the bellagio replicas or and WSOP replicas. I prefer my chips to be original artwork with a original idea, so I have no problem with this. BUT there should be detailed, well thought out guides to what a unacceptable reproduction is, and it should be placed where it is prominate to new members.

[800over]

Um Strange I hate to be the one to begin this sort of thing....but I have to protect my intellectual property so I'll have to ask you to refrain from using the term "red herring" in any future post within the "Appeal to Chiptalk Members" (direct quote by Tenpercenter). In clear view of all chiptalkers I used "red herring" in post #29. Please cease and desist or legal or sarcastic action including, but not limited to, whining, complaining or threats may be required.

Sub clause 2.1.1

Lawyers for 800over have agreed that wherein a change to another colour or fish will end all legal issues. They suggest (but are open to negotiation) the party of the first part (Strange) be allowed the use of "red cod", "maroon herring", or preferably "Tartan Markarel".


[quote=Strange]I think that the collectors concern as stated here is a red herring.

quote]

[palmimports]

This can go on forever--
When we did the B replicas- alot of people aired their comments, suggested changes so the chip would NOT be a copy of the original- we kept its format and looks, made changes, did our homework, and made it happen.

I think we're ALL capable of self-policing artwork that is presented on this site and I am sure those knowledgable elders will make sure the artwork is considered ok- or a blatant rip off and not condone its usage and making.

Lets keep things as it is- let the members voice their opinions on ANY artwork presented on CT to be considered for manufacturing- let the experienced members tell those who submit the artwork if it's too close for comfort- let the sponsers who make the chips decide, based on ALL the presented opinions, if they will consider making said chip- and let life move on.

I for one will not make something " too close for comfort" without doing my homework and making necessary calls- if all the manufacturers agreed to this- I think we will be fine.

[BlondWidow]

Originally Posted by 7thSeat

the code not shall be a CT law but mearly an ethical agreement among those who like it.

Hmmm... "among those who like it"? That's odd. If that's the case, I'm not sure this is a necessary code to put into effect. Or at the very least, it is redundant. I mean, people who would be the ones agreeing are already observing the code, aren't they? So what – people who disagree will go on copying, or replicating, dedicating or commemorating, whatever you want to call it. They wouldn't be affected by it in the least. What's the point?

A couple comments within this thread are really bothering me. First, someone way back toward the beginning said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I design for a living. I can tell you that being copied is not flattering. It is infuriating. You spend hours and hours working on something, getting it just right only to see that someone has taken the end product, bastardized it and called it their own. I mean, I suppose it is flattering in the sense that they liked your design enough to copy, but... really... Another thing is all of the people asking what a copy is. Are you serious? You really don't know if your design is an original or not? I apologize if I've offended people, but I had to get that off my chest.

Anyway, oddly, I voted for it, but now that it's being discussed more in depth and explained it really doesn't seem to hold any water to me. If you're going to address this issue, you may as well put some sort of rule into effect, otherwise the same thing will continue to happen.

[Strange]

Originally Posted by BlondWidow

Anyway, oddly, I voted for it, but now that it's being discussed more in depth and explained it really doesn't seem to hold any water to me. If you're going to address this issue, you may as well put some sort of rule into effect, otherwise the same thing will continue to happen.

Indeed.

[Strange]

Originally Posted by 800over

Lawyers for 800over have agreed that wherein a change to another colour or fish will end all legal issues. They suggest (but are open to negotiation) the party of the first part (Strange) be allowed the use of "red cod", "maroon herring", or preferably "Tartan Markarel".