[squiggly]

Originally Posted by maniack

Add to that the fact that the chips that they've replaced are great! Mirror surfaces and very hard stamps - I can't damage them with my thumbnail no matter how hard I try. They admitted there was a defect, yet they keep trying to send me back parts of the original order like I wouldn't notice or something and then yell at me when I sent the order back.

That says it all. Proof there was a defect in the original stamping run. I would assume that on a single production run of hotstamping, if there is a problem with some, there will more than likely be a problem with ALL. To try and take the easy way out and replace the visibly damaged chips and return the rest is ridiculous. If this were my company, I would have replaced the entire order. Period.

[smoore]

I've been a contractor for over a decade and I've only ever had to eat small portions of jobs. Even with only purchasing the minimum on my own I'm usually looking at a week or two of free labor. I woke up, drove to the site and worked 8 hours every day for two weeks; now I have a pile of demolition to show for it.

Carpet and vinyl are friggin' expensive; 3-8x what the labor costs to install them. So if I were paid $x to install a job and then the whole thing had to be replaced... On a large enough job, that could bankrupt me.

I think this is what BCC is doing. They only make, say 5¢ per chip once they are finally out the door. Therefore they are trying to only replace the ones that meet an arbitrary standard of "defective". They are probably already to the point of not making any money on this job. If they replace any more chips they will actually be PAYING to produce this "crappy little home set". (not that the set is crappy, you know what I mean) No business wants to be in that position.

This is my long winded way of saying, "Stick to your guns!" It's not your fault the foil is coming off.

[Jambine]

Originally Posted by beekeeper

....I don't mean to minimize the OP's concerns. If I were the consumer, I would advocate like heck for myself. But I've been on the other side, too, and I know that for small/med companies, you can have the best of intentions, but be limited in your ability to meet every contingency. FWIW

They are replacing the last 116 chips. Sounds like its all good now (or maybe I missed something).

[viet rounder]

Originally Posted by tmpa2001

Yet another thread showing that ASMs are the best chips.

Lets not turn this into another ASM vs BCC thread. Trust me, both sides have good and bad stories. ASM is no exception, just do a search.

[smoore]

Well, he's disappointed that he won't be able to use his die in the future.

That's not his fault, it's not BCC's fault. They tried a tough design and BCC decided that it wasn't in their best interest to keep producing them. From what I've heard about Mr. Endy, he used to be prone to outbursts, and lets face it... it's the casino industry. "Where you gonna go, eh?"

OP: perhaps you'll have to do a "secondary" chip with a revised design when you want to add on. Make one that they want to work with, eat the $100 die fee and proceed.

It's what a casino would do.

[MetalSlug3]

Originally Posted by viet rounder

Lets not turn this into another ASM vs BCC thread. Trust me, both sides have good and bad stories. ASM is no exception, just do a search.

I agree. I think it's lame that people are using this as an opportunity to vindicate their ASM preference.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Jambine

They are replacing the last 116 chips. Sounds like its all good now (or maybe I missed something).

Maybe you missed the fact that it has cost him multiple shipping costs, he cant add to his set as previoulsy thought, and the last email he got beasically accused him of lying and trying to destroy his own chips. If all that is true then the Endy's are people I would NEVER want to deal with and need to get out of the home market.

For all those talking about how it might cost them money to produce these chips... TO BAD!!! They are a huge company and they owe it to their customers to do the right thing. It's not like this little order is going to bankrupt them.

[JM]

Yeah I second that Deuce, we don't need to shed any tears for BCC. They make chips for CASINOS for cripes sake. A 500 chip order is not going to make a dent in their bottom line. Especially considering they are doing the new protege line and delayed that due to the huge volume of casino orders they had at the end of the year. Not to mention all the custom orders they just got from CTers!

Redoing his entire order the right way shouldn't hurt them one bit.

p.s. Deuce, word has it the Roman mold is available again!

[maniack]

Originally Posted by Couga

unless the OP left out that he had become abusive or extrodinarily rude, and if that is the case I withdraw my statements here. If not, there are other ways to convey what was written by the supplier.

I've honestly been nothing but cordial with them via email and on the phone. I'm a small business owner, and I know what it's like to deal with irate customers. I strive to be honest and friendly in all of my dealings, whether as vendor or customer.

My most testy email was this one.

After 3 weeks waiting and half a dozen emails requesting a status report, I get this email:

On Jan 22 Dave Endy wrote:
Please let me know how many of the adobe you say we owe you. I will ship ASAP.

Dave

I replied:

On January 23 I wrote:
You're kidding, right? You owe me more than half my order. 200 Adobe
$.50 chips and 120 Almond/Chocolate/Saturn Yellow $1 chips. When last
I spoke to you on the phone TWO WEEKS AGO you said that my second
round of replacement chips were "almost done" and would ship right
away. "you say we owe you"??? Are you seriously questioning the
status of my order after all this back and forth?

Originally Posted by smoore

Well, he's disappointed that he won't be able to use his die in the future.

That's not his fault, it's not BCC's fault. They tried a tough design and BCC decided that it wasn't in their best interest to keep producing them. From what I've heard about Mr. Endy, he used to be prone to outbursts, and lets face it... it's the casino industry. "Where you gonna go, eh?"

OP: perhaps you'll have to do a "secondary" chip with a revised design when you want to add on. Make one that they want to work with, eat the $100 die fee and proceed.

It's what a casino would do.

If the design wasn't going to work, they needed to stick with that and I would have happily come up with something else. Having to pay for another die fee is ludicrous. At this point, I wish I would have just returned the order after the 3rd time they shipped me bad chips and disputed the charge with my credit card company... I'm not a casino and I shouldn't have to eat the die fee.

Originally Posted by Deuce

Maybe you missed the fact that it has cost him multiple shipping costs, he cant add to his set as previoulsy thought, and the last email he got beasically accused him of lying and trying to destroy his own chips.

To be fair, I only had to pay for the first return shipment out of pocket. I sent everything back COD from then on. Your other points are valid.

[BPTDirector]

I am on your side as far as knowing absolutely that the end result should have you with a full set of correctly stamped chips that don't peel as easily as they show on your video.

Honestly though, if I was on the receiving end of your reply I probably would have read hostility and satire into what you wrote, even though I've written hundreds of emails in the same vein as your reply, and have felt that I was just being honest also at that time and not hostile in intent the folks that received those emails weren't always happy with me for awhile.

Email sucks, it doesn't show genuine intent or concern and isn't a great way to settle a dispute between two opposite sides. That's what conversation should be for. You cannot give up, you have the right to get the correct value for your money spent, and $500 is plenty big enough of an expense to be worried that it won't be right..... Talk, don't email, it may make a difference.

Good luck - I really hope this has a great ending for you -

BPT