[rolandshoffinc]

Johnny you have some great talent! Great looking chips.

[KYBill]

Originally Posted by Button Potato

On a side note, I never really understood how the "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor in Europe was allowed ship to America and effectively compete with Palm Imports, the American "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor. It is more of an observation that does not require an explanation - it just didn't seem right to me.

(.0157 Euros)

Ouch!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Button Potato

Lastly Matt, to insinuate that J5 had somehow copied your idea or artwork is insulting to me personally (and probably to others) as he is one the most highly respected and valuable contributors to our community.

Just my .02 (.0157 Euros)

Like I've said, I didn't even realize Johnny5 had created them. I got a pm saying someone was offering these as a group-buy and when I say the picture I just lost it. I saw the worst case scenario repeated before me 1000 times per second and didn't read the thread properly. I was staring myself blind at the picture and felt completely crushed. I wasn't accusing anyone for anything, just asking a question not knowing who had designed them at the time. I didn't even notice Johnny5 was the one posting the thread.

There's really no point continuing this arguement as I'm meeting no understanding what so ever. It seems people can not put themself in my position. I still feel that people would have reacted diffrently if someone for example had competed with Bostonpokerchips' WSOP offer. Then people would have thought "that's not very nice". All I meet is "there is no such rule" arguments. You just can't win when people hate your guts.


Matt

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Button Potato

On a side note, I never really understood how the "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor in Europe was allowed ship to America and effectively compete with Palm Imports, the American "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor. It is more of an observation that does not require an explanation - it just didn't seem right to me.

It might not be the right way to handle things but I leave that up to Sun-Fly to decide. I've honestly never heard anything about it not being allowed or correct to sell overseas for either party. I dunno. Companies in the US have been shipping poker chips to Europe for decades. Not sure I would be much of a threat to the US market. I seriousely doubt it. Have never received a comment about it until your post. Something tells me that Palm Imports would loose more European customes than I would loose US customers if such a rule would be made, since they are the more establish and larger company.


Matt

[Nugzy]

Matt, if you were running a group buy and then someone came along and tried to run the same group buy, yes it would be wrong. But you arent doing a group buy. You are simply selling chips from your store.

Lets say for example Im running a group buy for new Paulson chips. Someone comes along and starts another group buy for a different Paulson chip. Then five different people after him. Should I be mad? NO! I would love for that happen because it means the people of ChipTalk have more of a selection to choose from. The point of a group buy isnt for personal gain, but to help a group get a good price on something they want. Im going to continue my group buy, and everyone who wants to participate is more than welcome to, but if they decide not to it doesnt affect us.

I understand that youre trying to run a business and other people selling WSOP chips will affect your business, but dont try to accuse people of ruining your "group buy" because thats not the case. The only thing thats happening is other people are now offering similar products to yours. Its competition and they have every right to sell whatever they want and in the end the customer will decide which chips to buy. You didnt see NJ get angry when Joe came and started offering ceramic chips to ChipTalk. He didnt say "Wait, Im offering ceramic chips to ChipTalk, its not nice for someone else to. Theyre sharks, I thought they were nice people". In fact, Ive seen several threads where NJ has complimented Joe. Its the same case here with these chips. Two or more companies offering similar products, its up to the customer to decide who to buy from.

[Strange]

Matt, this is exactly the probalem that I pointed out in your 'these are my designs no one is allowed to steal them' thread.

If you choose to take another person's design and then base your business around it, you are always in jepardy from someone else doing the same thing since you cannot claim the rights for the design. You are left with having to compete on some other element like price, or service, or quality control. Anything but the design itself.

I would be absolutely sympathetic with you if Gene or anyone else was taking one of your designs and trying to sell it. But that just is not the case. It's not your design.

If another vendor takes a 'public' design and sells it at a lower price or better quality or faster or with a wider smile then you have to try to compete. You can't just whinge about it.

[duma]

Originally Posted by Button Potato

Fortunately, my wallet says that we are taking a well deserved break this month from chip purchases so I won't be purchasing any wsop replicas from any of the vendors - but I will say this:

Matt - you have really lost my respect with your posts in this and other threads. You can do business as you see fit but your attitude and demeanor are very different than what I am accustomed to.

On a side note, I never really understood how the "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor in Europe was allowed ship to America and effectively compete with Palm Imports, the American "exclusive" Sun-fly distributor. It is more of an observation that does not require an explanation - it just didn't seem right to me.

Lastly Matt, to insinuate that J5 had somehow copied your idea or artwork is insulting to me personally (and probably to others) as he is one the most highly respected and valuable contributors to our community.

Just my .02 (.0157 Euros)

thats funny because i was under the impression that ABC uses Sun Fly blanks as well.

and i'm sure this matter can be settled if we contact Harrahs and ask them who they would prefer to make these chips

[turboj619]

That would be a bad idea because I used to work for harrah's, and i know how they think, they will try to make money off of this to and sue everyone. LOL

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Nugzy

Matt, if you were running a group buy and then someone came along and tried to run the same group buy, yes it would be wrong. But you arent doing a group buy. You are simply selling chips from your store.

Lets say for example Im running a group buy for new Paulson chips. Someone comes along and starts another group buy for a different Paulson chip. Then five different people after him. Should I be mad? NO! I would love for that happen because it means the people of ChipTalk have more of a selection to choose from. The point of a group buy isnt for personal gain, but to help a group get a good price on something they want. Im going to continue my group buy, and everyone who wants to participate is more than welcome to, but if they decide not to it doesnt affect us.

I understand that youre trying to run a business and other people selling WSOP chips will affect your business, but dont try to accuse people of ruining your "group buy" because thats not the case. The only thing thats happening is other people are now offering similar products to yours. Its competition and they have every right to sell whatever they want and in the end the customer will decide which chips to buy. You didnt see NJ get angry when Joe came and started offering ceramic chips to ChipTalk. He didnt say "Wait, Im offering ceramic chips to ChipTalk, its not nice for someone else to. Theyre sharks, I thought they were nice people". In fact, Ive seen several threads where NJ has complimented Joe. Its the same case here with these chips. Two or more companies offering similar products, its up to the customer to decide who to buy from.

You are right. It's not a group buy when I think about it. It's a limited time special offer which is basically the same thing except for the fact that I am investing money to make this offer. When you run a group buy you don't have to invest any money or rent a forum. I know it has taken much longer than expected. If things would have worked out the way I thought they would then this limited time special offer would allready be over. S*it happens I suppose. I understand that others are interested in making special offer for these here at ChipTalk as they are so popular. I'm not saying that anyone has broken some law/rule or anything. I'm just disappointed with how this turned out and some peoples mean spirited attitude towards me. I've felt very threatened and hurt by it. I did a mistake by posting here. I've tried to explain why I acted the way I did and have apologized. I hope things will work out for everyone.


Matt

[Senator_Thack]

No one is behaving in a mean-spirited fashion. No one is treating you negatively because they don't like you personally. You are receiving negative feedback as a direct consequence of your posts. It will not help to put the blame on someone else's "mean-spiritedness" when the problem is your reaction to the current situation.

As far as I can tell, J5 created a nice WSOP replica design, had ABC print it with aligned edgespots, liked the results, and posted to basically say, "look how cool this came out!" You then responded without thinking things through and accused all and sundry of misbehaving. Negative feedback followed, prompted by more childish ranting from you, and it kept going downhill. In the meantime, everybody demanded that J5 and ABC make these public at the same time you made everyone not want to buy your chips.

You have harmed your own business worse than they could have. You would have been in great shape if you had read the first post, thought about it, and responded with something along the lines of, "Wow, those are great! If you want sweet WSOP replicas with aligned edgespots, I've got them ready to ship." If you had responded that way, I doubt J5 and ABC would have offered to make them available to the public.

If I were you, I would apologise to all you offended and let it go. Explaining why you were right or someone else was wrong just makes people want to disagree with you more. Joe from Palm Imports gave a great example of how to get out of a hole - quit digging! Everybody hated him after his first couple threads and never wanted to do business with him because he kept arguing with everyone. Finally he quit arguing, and started offering products that posters here wanted. Now everyone loves him.

Chill out, offer good products, focus on why your products are good, and you'll be fine.