[Captn_All_In]

Originally Posted by schmag

Another one? Ooh my...

Sometimes its all about the chips baby!!

+1

[Captn_All_In]

Kind of seems like this thread got away from its original intention---Meaner vs James??!!??

What's it gonna be? Are we going to get to see this showdown or what?

[ky70]

Originally Posted by Captn_All_In

Kind of seems like this thread got away from its original intention---Meaner vs James??!!??

What's it gonna be? Are we going to get to see this showdown or what?

Now that's what I want to know, but I don't think James has replied (yet).

[smoore]

goddam! I go away for THREE days and this crap explodes all over C&T. I wish I could lock a topic down to just two people, then I would split all this discussion off into poker strategy. Lets interject a couple facts into all of this opinion:

1) Freezeout and rebuy strategy varies greatly.

2) Different poker games require different strategies.

3) Bad players lay bad beats.

Ok, we have three facts now. By someone saying, "Rebuy tournaments favor the fish over a freezeout format! I hate them!" they might as well say, "Texas Hold'em favors fish over seven card stud! I hate that game!" Does anyone here agree with the latter statement? I sure don't. Hold'em simply requires different strategies over stud.

"Schooling" (when bad players stay in with weak draws together) works to the fishs' advantage in hold'em, because it's a game of very small edges and when they school together, they give each other the correct odds to draw to their hands. Stud is a game of massive edges and when people stay in with bad draws they almost never have the odds to do so.

end of facts, start of advice:

Rebuy tournaments are going to require different strategies too. I'll write more on them in my upcoming articles (yeah, yeah... I'm hoping to FINISH my outline tonight) but here're a few hints for during the rebuy, assuming unlimited rebuys:

1) See every cheap flop you can when you are in position on most of your opponents, cards barely matter as long as it's CHEAP. You're going to outplay them after the flop. This means lots of limping along, even with trash and lots of calling those crappy minraises with two broadways, etc. You'd better be as "good" of a player as you think you are to play like this because you're going to have to lay down some pretty big hands.

2) Take more chances, especially with your stack. If there are two opponents in a very large pot and you have the nut flush draw on the flop, you can make a strong case for pushing it in. As long as the board is not paired you will be getting near even money on your wager... 2:1 against to make your nut hand, each player will probably have about what is in the pot left in thier stack. You push, you're immediately getting 1:1, you only need ONE caller to get even money on this gamble, if you get both of them you are WAY getting the best of it.

3) Don't try to push anyone around. Play ABC poker with some extra gamb00l thrown in. Just assemble a good hand or a great draw and bet big.

As soon as the rebuy period ends, take the addon unless you are a CLEAR chipleader (as the individual chips aren't worth as much to you). Now play like a freezeout.

end of advice, start opinion:

People who claim to be good poker players that can't adjust their game to game conditions are obviously not good poker players. Someone who can only play NHLE Freezeouts well should cease calling themself a "good poker player" and start calling themself a "good NLHE freezeout player". Any poker game can be beaten as long as you understand it better than your opponents, rebuys are no different. I love rebuy tournaments, fish play like fish and most "good" players play them so weak-tight it's like taking candy from babies.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by smoore

end of advice, start opinion:

People who claim to be good poker players that can't adjust their game to game conditions are obviously not good poker players. Someone who can only play NHLE Freezeouts well should cease calling themself a "good poker player" and start calling themself a "good NLHE freezeout player". Any poker game can be beaten as long as you understand it better than your opponents, rebuys are no different. I love rebuy tournaments, fish play like fish and most "good" players play them so weak-tight it's like taking candy from babies.

I don't know if any of the above is directed at my earlier posts, but the rebuy vs. freezeout thing is just my personal preference and I've over discussed why I prefer freezeouts. You correctly stated that the strategy in a rebuy tourney would be different but what I'm saying is my preference is not to have that early style of play at my game. Now if the players at my game say they want to play with rebuys, then rebuys it is.

I'm capable of playing in a game with the rebuy option as I play in another home game (which is also freezeout) that only starts out with 30 big bets per man and with blinds increasing every 15 or 20 minutes (what I like to call "speed poker", lol). I don't like the structure one bit but I support this game as many of these players support mine...if you compare that structure to other home game structures you know how aggressive you must be early with this set up. I am successful at this game (as I am in my own) but I enjoy the type of play that goes on in my game more.

At both home games I play in I win more than any other single player that I play with, but I have no need for more of these guys money as they are old friends and new friends...my winnings get reinvested into enhancing my home game (table,cards,chips) and I consider it my rake. The ONLY reason I even play for money to begin with is that most people will not play "straight up" without something in the middle. Poker is a wonderful game even without money in the middle when people are playing and making decisions with the sole intent of being the last man standing. The toughest games (and sometime the most fun) I have is when I play four handed against myself with each hand acting independently and ignoring the I know about each hands hole cards. This exercise requires a lot of personal integrity or I'll just say honesty but is truly rewarding for me. I have sat at my poker table for hours running through full tournaments with my tourney software running and everything. I know I'm babbling but I want to give you some insight on why I play poker and what excites me about it. I'll play no limit any way the host chooses but I love the play in my game with the freezeout rule and I won't change it unless the players request it.

I'm busy next week but I would enjoy playing you a few times at the $10 heads up tables on Poker Stars. Since Meaner and James won't get it on, why don't we

[smoore]

Yeah, ok I can see that. If I played poker for "the love of the game" then a freezeout would definitely be more appealing to me because it's a more pure format. Fact is, I play poker for money... I'm a gambler. I used to play pool for money and if I was good enough I'd play darts for money. I will bet on anything where I think I have an edge. Sometimes I bet just to see if I have that edge. I avoid -EV bets like the plague. I don't even really care about the money, if I were a fulltime pro I certainly would but I have other income. There's just something about WINNING money that makes it far more satisfying than earning money for doing some job.

And yeah, I'll play $10 HU... freezeout or cash game?

[ky70]

Originally Posted by smoore

Yeah, ok I can see that. If I played poker for "the love of the game" then a freezeout would definitely be more appealing to me because it's a more pure format. Fact is, I play poker for money... I'm a gambler. I used to play pool for money and if I was good enough I'd play darts for money. I will bet on anything where I think I have an edge. Sometimes I bet just to see if I have that edge. I avoid -EV bets like the plague. I don't even really care about the money, if I were a fulltime pro I certainly would but I have other income. There's just something about WINNING money that makes it far more satisfying than earning money for doing some job.

And yeah, I'll play $10 HU... freezeout or cash game?

I can't disagree with anything here.
I was thinking tourney style for the heads up. I don't have a lot of experience with cash games and I'm still trying to break myself from "tourney mode" when I'm playing in a cash game...but in my quest to get better, I'd play that too.

[VARoadstter]

Originally Posted by smoore

Yeah, ok I can see that. If I played poker for "the love of the game" then a freezeout would definitely be more appealing to me because it's a more pure format. Fact is, I play poker for money... I'm a gambler. I used to play pool for money and if I was good enough I'd play darts for money. I will bet on anything where I think I have an edge. Sometimes I bet just to see if I have that edge. I avoid -EV bets like the plague. I don't even really care about the money, if I were a fulltime pro I certainly would but I have other income. There's just something about WINNING money that makes it far more satisfying than earning money for doing some job.

And yeah, I'll play $10 HU... freezeout or cash game?

I'm up for this also. I need to work on my HU play anyway. I will play for any stakes. I'm particularly interested if after the match we could go through the hand histories and objectively analyze the hands. I would also like to railbird any of these you would be playing if you'll post date and time on here somewhere.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by VARoadstter

I'm up for this also. I need to work on my HU play anyway. I will play for any stakes. I'm particularly interested if after the match we could go through the hand histories and objectively analyze the hands. I would also like to railbird any of these you would be playing if you'll post date and time on here somewhere.

ooh baby! ct.net headsup championship? i'm in.

[puzzlemonkey]

I'd be willing to participate in this as well, depending, of course on schedule and the like...