Two different Horshu-mold Binion's $1s

[jdunford]

OK, I'm not a big collector; more of a player who collects playable sets of chips and cycles through them regularly. But I also have various sample sets and a few LV $1s, etc., and after getting a couple of racks of Binion's Horseshoe $25s and $100s this summer, I decided to collect a sample set (at least of the denominations up to $100) of the Horshu-mold editions that feature Benny Binion's picture.

So I've finally got them all, plus a duplicate $1, and I picked up various DieSwirl, ArrowDie and TH&C Binion's chips along the way. Then, just as I was putting my prized sample set in air-tites and deciding between which of the two $1s to "protect", I realized they're not identical! In fact, it appears that while the inlay graphics for one of my $1s matches all of my 25¢, 50¢, $5, $25, and $100 chips, the other seems to have been rebuilt from scratch.

At a glance, it's quite similar, but upon closer inspection, there are several differences:

• The photo of Benny Binion is of much higher quality (larger greyscale palette; most noticeably his hat and shoulders, but even his eyes and smile look remarkably different on close inspection, and the image exhibits the moiré pattern that is famous on Samurai chips, but also shows up on Dunes and others).
• The font for "Horseshoe Club - Las Vegas - Nev" is cleaner
• The horseshoe itself is thicker and has more detail, especially at the ends.
• The text reading "Benny Binion's" is in a completely different font and outlined in white.
• Even the "$1" font is a little different, although less noticeable than the other features listed above.

I don't own a scanner and haven't snapped my own photo yet, but I found both versions on ebay:

1. 
2. 

I assume these must be from different editions. One ebay seller refers to #2 as 10th or 11th edition. I'm not sure of the edition number for #1.

I've noticed that all the DieSwirl (older?) and TH&C $1s (newer?) that I've seen have the #1 inlay graphics. And I haven't seen this image used for any denominations other than $1 on any mold. I was wondering if an edition of other denominations matches #2, or if the inlay graphics were only redone for the $1.

I'm not very efficient at navigating The Chip Board and other chip collector sites. Perhaps somebody could link me to more info on this #2 edition of Binion's Horseshoe chips, and if it only applies to the $1. Thanks in advance.

[ovo]

In The Chip Rack, I have a beige listed as a 1984 release, and a gray listed as a 1970's release. Both of those say they are in a large horseshoe. And a small horseshoe, beige, released in the 60's

I'll bet one of those releases had minor variations .

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by ovo

In The Chip Rack, I have a beige listed as a 1984 release, and a gray listed as a 1970's release. Both of those say they are in a large horseshoe. And a small horseshoe, beige, released in the 60's

I'll bet one of those releases had minor variations .

All 3 on the Horshu-mold? If the mold isn't explicitly stated, I'd guess the 1984 release was TH&C, while the '60's and '70's would be the two above. But they're the same colour as far as I can tell (these pictures make #2 look more beige/brown, but in person they're identical in my opinion, although mine are both dirty so I can't be sure), so not sure which is which.

Or perhaps the '60's "small horseshoe" is like this red 25¢ chip with a much smaller image offset to the top-right.

(image taken from a Spinettis ebay auction)

[ovo]

yes, all three on horseshoe mold, With regard to large horseshoe and small horseshoe, the reference was to the inlay.

[jojong]

ovo is correct. There are 3 version of the $1 with the horshu mold. Out of the the 2 you show, I have listed #1 as the 10th issue and #2 as the 11th issue. Now that talking about it, I may be wrong. Here's a scan I kept from Ross when I was trying to figure out the same question.


As you can see #2 is N7152 from 1960 and #1 is N1778 from 1984 so based on the year, I think I got the issue backwards. #1 is the 11th issue and #2 is the 10th issue. I don't have the current version of the Chip Guide but the previous version listed only 2 issues of the $1 with the horshu mold. N1237 is the third version that's listed in the Chip Rack.

This is the only other chip that used the same inlay as #2 as far as I know. This chip is not listed in my version of the Chip Guide.


I'm sure Ross will chime in if I got anything wrong.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by jojong

ovo is correct. There are 3 version of the $1 with the horshu mold. Out of the the 2 you show, I have listed #1 as the 10th issue and #2 as the 11th issue. Now that talking about it, I may be wrong. Here's a scan I kept from Ross when I was trying to figure out the same question.


As you can see #2 is N7152 from 1960 and #1 is N1778 from 1984 so based on the year, I think I got the issue backwards. #1 is the 11th issue and #2 is the 10th issue. I don't have the current version of the Chip Guide but the previous version listed only 2 issues of the $1 with the horshu mold. N1237 is the third version that's listed in the Chip Rack.

This is the only other chip that used the same inlay as #2 as far as I know. This chip is not listed in my version of the Chip Guide.


I'm sure Ross will chime in if I got anything wrong.

Excellent. That's exactly the info I was looking for.

From that scan, I think mine are actually the 1984 and the 1960's editions, as they appear to share the same base colour.

Now I'll have to check which TH&C $1 I have. Is the difference that one is SCV and the other is LCV, as in the scan? Or is it a base colour difference, since Paulson is known to make chips with either SCV/LCV seemingly at random, and sometimes even a different mold on each side?

[cdnmoose]

I believe your older chip is referred to as the small text Horshu. It's a nice find.

You gave me a N1778 and I also have E1236, E1237. My busto one was also an E1237. I didn't realize the one you gave me was different, myself until I was looking at them a few days ago and I noticed the colour difference.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by cdnmoose

I believe your older chip is referred to as the small text Horshu. It's a nice find.

You gave me a N1778 and I also have E1236, E1237. My busto one was also an E1237. I didn't realize the one you gave me was different, myself until I was looking at them a few days ago and I noticed the colour difference.

Ah, perhaps that's what ovo's Chip Rack was referring to: "small text horseshoe" (rather than "small horseshoe"). Seems to be consistent with release years.

I really like the look of the N7152 (#2). It's too bad there aren't other denominations with matching inlays - outside of the rare (and pricey) $5000 chip, of course. It seems strange that they'd revert to the lower image quality graphics from the 1950's DieSwirl chips after briefly changing.

[ross]

Originally Posted by jdunford

Excellent. That's exactly the info I was looking for.
Now I'll have to check which TH&C $1 I have. Is the difference that one is SCV and the other is LCV, as in the scan? Or is it a base colour difference, since Paulson is known to make chips with either SCV/LCV seemingly at random, and sometimes even a different mold on each side?

Back then the chips were ordered as long or short hat&cane. Today you are correct that many of the newer chips (Palazzo, Venetian, Strat, Hard Rock, Ballys, Paris) have a mix of mold with 3 possibilities.

The LCV version of the Binions chip is much more difficult to find (I hesitate to use the term rare). I have looked through hundreds or more just to get one. The H&C chips come in a number of varieties as well. The two major being something of a grey and the newer ones being beige. The colors are more visible live than in a scan.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by ross

Back then the chips were ordered as long or short hat&cane. Today you are correct that many of the newer chips (Palazzo, Venetian, Strat, Hard Rock, Ballys, Paris) have a mix of mold with 3 possibilities.

The LCV version of the Binions chip is much more difficult to find (I hesitate to use the term rare). I have looked through hundreds or more just to get one. The H&C chips come in a number of varieties as well. The two major being something of a grey and the newer ones being beige. The colors are more visible live than in a scan.

Thanks! Excellent info all around. I Chiptalk.

...

(preferably AK ... in position)

I'm pretty sure mine's the SCV. I usually take note of LCV's when I see them. I find they tend to be less common in general (at least for more recent casino chips), but it could be my imagination. Of course, I'll check as soon as I get home tonight.

(I'm such a geek)