[ovo]

HI guys,

I just got some Dunes, { yes I will post pics, but later}. I looked them over and they look pretty darn good. I found one with an inlay that was off-center, not a big deal. I found one with a big chip on the edge. And I notice some very minor warping on a few chips. The 43 mm 20's have more noticeable warping. For my needs I think the order is good, but what parameters do you experienced chip buyers tolerate with casino chips ??? How many off -center inlays or how many chipped edges, or how much warping ??? I am brand new to this . Advice please. AND YES, PICS WILL COME LATER. I have two more orders coming, and then the pics. thanks

[Josh7975]

Hey Ovo,
I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your Dunes.

I'm also really new at this. Based on my own experience (my first few racks of fantasy and casino clays) I really enjoy the variations that come up in a set of clay chips. Off center inlays, uneven edges, and variations in wear, color, and spotting are all interesting and pleasing to me. Most of all, I think those variations make the chips less about mass production and more about subjective touch and feel.

All that being said, some flaws are completely unacceptable. I would imagine that any warping is definitely out. I recently posted regarding a few racks of BCC James Bond chips that I received. Quite a few have what seem to be flimsy inlays with uneven, dented centers. For whatever reason, the uneven quality of these inlays is much more displeasing to me than off-center inlays, chipped edges, or even off-color spots (none of which particularly bother me).

One of the qualities I value in chips is durability, which is probably why I don't like the uneven inlays. Another collector might value uniformity over durability, in which case the uneven inlays might be less of an issue than the off-color edge spots. I think the upshot is that you need to figure out what it is that pleases you in your chips, and then do what you can to maximize it. "More experienced" collectors won't be able to tell you how you should enjoy your chips.

You'll probably need to figure out your own tolerance for warping, off-center inlays, etc. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem replacing any that you are unhappy with. In my (limited) experience, vendors have been really responsive to customer concerns-- the exception is 5stardeal, who have yet to respond to my emails regarding the extra 200 chips they sent me. (WTF? I'm trying to do the right thing here.) Cheers,

Josh

[on tilt]

There is no hard and fast rule about what is acceptable or not when it comes to chip collecting. It is all up to the collector.

I think it is generally the rule that most collectors want chips in new condition with perfectly centered inlays and if possible aligned onlays. That being said I know there are many collectors who place no extra value on new chips, preferring instead chips that have an unknown but no doubt interesting history and have obviously spent a lot of time on the tables.

For myself, when buying an expensive chip, I go to some lengths to check condition before I buy (or bid when it comes to ebay). If it is a respected CC&GTCC member I'll ask them for a detailed condition description. In other cases I'll usually ask for a high res scan.

I buy what I can afford. And if the same chip comes along in better condition I'll buy that and trade or sell my old chip. For example I bought this off James Campiglia for a good price - Four Queens 1st Edition Arrodie mould in average or slightly better condition:

I then upgraded to a slightly better version:


Not a huge difference to most people, more cross hatching and stands easily, but important differences to me as my collection grows.

Damaged or cancelled chips are also sometimes a necessary evil. This is a Dunes 10th edition poker room chip (horse head right mould). This is a R8 chip - extremely rare 8 to 15 thought to exist). I got this for $50 but it is warped. To me that is okay because a decent unwarped one would cost me well upwards of $200. I'll get a decent one one day, but for now this will do:


If you are going to get serious about collecting buy yourself a guide book like the Official US Casino Chip Price Guide which lists different values depending on condition. Also visit the CC&GTCC website which has a lot of information about generally accepted grading standards: http://www.ccgtcc.com/education/conditions.pdf

Despite all I have said above, if you are buying a chip because of what it looks like in a scan or because of the grade it has been given by the seller, and it is not as represented (ie a bait and switch or over graded chip), don't accept it, and get a refund or what you paid for.

Happy chipping.

[jamby]

Some excellent information is presented above by on tilt. It sounds like what you bought though are not collectible Dunes chips from the original casino at all, but rather the commemorative 'fake' Dunes that are currently being sold. Tolerances for collectibles vs. playable chipsets from non casinos are really two different matters. If I had warping problems with a brand new set of chips I'd speak to the seller immediately and arrange for replacements of the problematic chips. If I bought a warped collectible I would expect that information to be declared by the seller up front so that the price could be adjusted accordingly. Good luck.

[links_slayer]

Originally Posted by ovo

The 43 mm 20's have more noticeable warping.

jamby, I don't think he has the Dunes commemoratives. A) there's no $20 chip in that set and B) they're not 43mm.

[ovo]

Originally Posted by links_slayer

jamby, I don't think he has the Dunes commemoratives. A) there's no $20 chip in that set and B) they're not 43mm.

Correct, and the warping is very minor in my opinion. And I'm not buying them to sit on a shelf. I will be playing with them. Keep the info coming. I appreciate feedback.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by ovo

Correct, and the warping is very minor in my opinion. And I'm not buying them to sit on a shelf. I will be playing with them. Keep the info coming. I appreciate feedback.

I definitely wouldn't say there were any "problems" with my Dunes order from Spinettis. In fact, I ordered uncirculated $5s and "used" $25s + $100s and received all the chips in uncirculated condition! They were pretty dusty on arrival, so I lightly oiled them to bring out their colours. There is some minor colour transfer on some of the $5s (basically some red spread over the sky blue / mint green spots) and $100s (similar with the black), but it's less noticeable after oiling. This is probably just due to chips rotating around in their boxes during shipping (which also would account for all the chip dust in the boxes). I may have been able to remove most of the transfer if I'd cleaned them first, but I didn't bother; went straight to oiling. Chip edges are as sharp as any mint chips I've seen, so there's no doubt that they were never put in play.

I did find that nearly 50% of my $25s and maybe 20% of my $5s are slightly warped (some more noticeably than others; a few of the $25s are visibly noticeable even when held individually, whereas the others just show a slight gap/wobble when stacked). I think this is acceptable, given the age of these chips. I mean, they are "vintage" casino chips that have been sitting around collecting dust for ~ 15 years. They may have inadvertently been exposed to heat or humidity over that time.

While oiling, I also found one $5 with very off-centred inlays on both sides. The other 199 chips looked pretty good; didn't notice anything out-of-the-ordinary. I have a few "spares" (i.e. sample sets) that some generous ChipTalkers have given me, so if it really bothered me, I could swap this and any other "error" or damaged chip out... but it doesn't. These chips were hand-made, and they're bound to have minor variations.

I put a few in play on Thursday night in a quick heads-up match with imthatguy. I'll post pics later this weekend.

I didn't order any of the 43 mm Baccarat chips (I have a sample set that I recently received from links_slayer, but they're all flat).

[smux3]

Originally Posted by ovo

Correct, and the warping is very minor in my opinion. And I'm not buying them to sit on a shelf. I will be playing with them. Keep the info coming. I appreciate feedback.

I would think that its going to be very irritating to have to play with warped chips.

[jamby]

Excellent point. Forgive me, but I've not been following the Dunes fakes too closely.

That being the case then, it really doesn't change my opinion at all. There's no way that I'd accept warped chips for play.

Originally Posted by links_slayer

jamby, I don't think he has the Dunes commemoratives. A) there's no $20 chip in that set and B) they're not 43mm.

[ovo]

I'll post some pics, but like I said, very minor warping, like Jeff said, when the Dunes are stacked you can see a little space on a few here and there. It seems ok to me, but if I was a collector, maybe not, but when I get some pics up, you guys can give me your opinions. And thanks for moving this post, never sure where to post certain topics. frank