[Couga]

I figured this would be a good place to post this question. I am sure by now everyone has heard about the guy that was DQ'd from the WSOP main event because he had pocketed all of his chips while switching tables. From what I have read the way I understand it was the guy was told to move tables. Instead of using the racks like a sane person he poketed all of his chips for the move. The tournament director was notified and Disqualified the gentleman, who claimed to not have known any better. The reason being that once chips are concealed from view, they are considered dead (or some such thing that is not overly relavant to the question below).

Some people are under the impression that the guy was harvesting the chips as a momento or to sell on eBay. I don't belive that to be the case but made me want to ask this question.

How do you feel about harvesting tournament chips?

All insights and views are welcome. Mine are below, I thought this would make a great discussion topic.

- Couga

[Couga]

Originally Posted by Couga

How do you feel about harvesting tournament chips?

I’m going to go out on a limb here. I know that it is against the rules to take chips out of tournament play, just as I know it is against the rules to harvest roulette chips. However that doesn't mean that I won't do it. I am a serious poker player as well as serious chip collector and when the two intersect I have on occasion taken advantage of the situation.


I understand why chips cannot be taken out of play. Players and Tournament directors fear the chips may be re-introduced in later tournaments or be passed to another player to pad his stack. However, I'm not harvesting them for those reasons, the chips would be for my own personal collection and my personal collection only. If I were to make it to the WSOP would I be willing to risk being kicked out of my event and being banned from all WSOP events in the future for a few chips? I don't know, but I would consider it.

I understand the Casino and other players do not know what I am harvesting the chips for, and they have to do what they have to do to protect the integrity of the game because they have no idea what I am doing. I also realize that I am the only person that knows for sure that the chips I am taking out of play will truly be out of play forever. As a result I could not blame anyone for turning me in if they saw me harvesting chips. I don't expect the casino or my fellow players to show leniency if I am caught, but that is a risk I take from time to time as a collector.

Your thoughts?

- Couga

[Harlequin011]

Originally Posted by Couga

I figured this would be a good place to post this question. I am sure by now everyone has heard about the guy that was DQ'd from the WSOP main event because he had pocketed all of his chips while switching tables. From what I have read the way I understand it was the guy was told to move tables. Instead of using the racks like a sane person he poketed all of his chips for the move. The tournament director was notified and Disqualified the gentleman, who claimed to not have known any better. The reason being that once chips are concealed from view, they are considered dead (or some such thing that is not overly relavant to the question below).

Some people are under the impression that the guy was harvesting the chips as a momento or to sell on eBay. I don't belive that to be the case but made me want to ask this question.

How do you feel about harvesting tournament chips?

All insights and views are welcome. Mine are below, I thought this would make a great discussion topic.

- Couga

Good question.

I'm torn between wanting the chips and maintaining integrity of the game. I say you remove chips at your own risk, the chips are dead at that point. But you are still taking chips out of play, thus affecting the game.

Did I tell you I just bought some Binions WSOP chips?

I wouldn't do it. But I would buy from someone that did. I don't mean I wouldn't do it because of the risk. I just don't think its right to affect the game that way.

[gwilkx]

i think this one is pretty clear cut. the tournament chips belong to the casino. the player hasn't purchased them for use and later redemption at face value. thus, harvesting NCV chips is theft of casino property. it's the equivalent of taking home that little light-up pager thing that they give you at chili's, or that cool beer sign on the wall at your favorite bar.

i know that a single chip is nothing to a billion-dollar casino, but once you consider that enough chips could disappear to force the casino to purchase a whole new tournament set (because of the potential for them to be reintroduced), and it's a little more real.

add in the "integrity of the game" issue, and i just don't think it's right to take them.

plus, if you were the TD, and had this beautiful set of tournament chips, how would you feel if there were 3,998 of them when you locked up the closet. you'd have that one rack that wasn't quite full and (if you're like me) wouldn't be able to sleep .

2 cents - nothing more.

on a similar note - i played in a big tournament at the palms last year. when the 10th place finisher was eliminated, the TD moved everyone to the final table and then declared a break while he audited the chips. counted every single stack, wrote them all down to ensure that no "souveniers" were taken and that no foreign chips had been introduced. i thought it was interesting (having never seen someone do that), but my question would be - what do you do if there are some missing? there's obviously no way to guarantee that one of the people still in the tournament is the culprit.


gw-

[Daniel]

wow....

i am a culprit, as i've taken achip before for my personal collection when i was at a final table....

after reading the two posts here, i feel real bad, coz i know for a fact the TD knew the chip(s) was missing.....

i'm feeling pretty guilty right now and wishing i had not read this thread....



i can only imagine if someone took one of my pharaohs for their collection during one of my games, i'd be livid....
and in the same respect, i think thats how the TD would feel...

should i give it back?

[Couga]

Originally Posted by gwilkx

i think this one is pretty clear cut. the tournament chips belong to the casino. the player hasn't purchased them for use and later redemption at face value. thus, harvesting NCV chips is theft of casino property. it's the equivalent of taking home that little light-up pager thing that they give you at chili's, or that cool beer sign on the wall at your favorite bar."gw-

I agree that the tournament chips belong to the casino. However ALL chips belong to the casino. They are simply IOUs to be paid to the bearer prior to leaving the property. If you want clairification I can get you in touch with an "expert". But it boils down to anytime you take a chip from a casino, it's "stealing", so I don't have much problem with that.

My only twinge of guilt or whatever you want to call it, is taking chips out of play. If you bust out, you are shorting the guy that busted you a few chips and that is not fair. You are also shorting yourself, what if you pocketed a 100NCV and busted out because your opponent had your exact chip count. The saying "Chip and a Chair" was not created because it sounds cool.

BTW - You don't take those cool signs home from bars?

Take Care,
Couga

[Trojan man]

Originally Posted by Couga

I agree that the tournament chips belong to the casino. However ALL chips belong to the casino. They are simply IOUs to be paid to the bearer prior to leaving the property. If you want clairification I can get you in touch with an "expert". But it boils down to anytime you take a chip from a casino, it's "stealing", so I don't have much problem with that.

My only twinge of guilt or whatever you want to call it, is taking chips out of play. If you bust out, you are shorting the guy that busted you a few chips and that is not fair. You are also shorting yourself, what if you pocketed a 100NCV and busted out because your opponent had your exact chip count. The saying "Chip and a Chair" was not created because it sounds cool.

BTW - You don't take those cool signs home from bars?

Take Care,
Couga

Casino want you to take their checks from the front rack on the tables and cage, but not their tournament chips. The regular checks are an IOU, but the tournament chips are not. On regular checks they only have an upside and enourmous return. On a $5 chip the casino makes over $4 on every one that goes out the door never to return. They count on chips walking out the door. Now for tournament chips with NCV they only have a downside. They don't make any return on the chips leaving, and there is a possibliliy it could effect the integrity of their tournaments.

I have an issue with harvesting tournament chips, but not with chips from the rack.

[gagners]

I gotta agree partially with Trojan. Even tho cash chips belong to the casino, they WANT you to take them. The pay less than any of us for paulsons etc, and whenever a $5 or even $25 walk out, they made a huge profit. Why do you think there are so many commemorative chips? so people will take them and never redeem them.

Now, tourney chips...hmmm... horse of a different color.

1 - it should be at the risk of the player b/c he is shorting himself (herself, you know what I mean)

2 - it should not leave intact. I think players should have the right to take a chip, but that the casino has the right to "void" the chip, making it impossible to reintroduce (drill a hole through it etc). That way, I get my WSOP "trophy", and the TD is secure knowing that the integrity of the game isn't compromised.

As a matter of fact, since the WSOP chips are re-done ever year (I'm correct on this, right?) I'm wicked surprised that the host casino doesn't sell the chips after the season is done. Could you imagine owning a 500 chip set of ACTUAL WSOP ME CHIPS? How much would we, as true chip geeks, be willing to pay for that? Enough to buy next year's tourney set I'm certain.

For home games and small local tourneys and the like, if you want a chip, offer to buy it off of the owner. If he says no, keep your grubby hands off of them...

[Sniper2075]

I also have no clue why the WSOP doesn't sell the chips after the series. One they are NCV chips, so do they even have to be canselled according to Nevada Gaming. Not sure on the regs, I heard that cash value chips have to be destroyed via certain means that they outline. But what about the Sahara chips that are for sale at the moment by Harlequin011. They arn't cancelled or destroyed. I would think they could sell them for atlest what they paid for them if not much more, with the volume of chips they bough they must get a good deal, especially considering how many chips Harrah's Entertainment buys for all there casinos around the country.

[rolandshoffinc]

I think that at the end of the tournament they should send the chips to all the players so they can recoupe some of their loses.

On the other hand they should just send them all to me!