[MiracleRiver]

Hi Folks!

A chap from merry England here - your friends across the water

I'm going to splash out on some proper chips (have to order from USA of course). And to help me work out my denomination spread I'd like to have an idea of:

Q1: If I have a $20 buyin tournament with 10 players, with a fairly standard blind structure, and say just one rebuy at by the end of the 3rd blind, how many folks can I expect to rebuy on average?

Assume that most folks have good jobs (no students), so they would not have a great problem buying another $20 apart from the loss of face. And there would be a mixture of newbies and players with a bit more experience.

Q2: Assume the same players as above, and the same $20 buyin. But this time I'm going to have a bit more of a wild tournerment structure with fast moving blinds, and multiple rebuys and addons - each rebuy and addon being $20.

How many rebuys and addons would be purchased in such a tournerment?

I know both these questions are hard to put a figure to - but I would love to have some sort of ballpark figure.

Many thanks - and yes, it's raining here in London

[Wylecoyo]

Welcome aboard! Just a quick guess, but I would think if you had enough chips to cover 1/3 to half of your field for rebuys you would probably never be short. Even better would be to simply use higher value chips for rebuys - for example if you are doing a T5000 tournament with 25/100/500/1000 chips handed out at the beginning of play you could simply give rebuys 5 1000 chips or 1 5000 chip and let them get change from other players. This would maximize your rebuy potential while minimizing the number of extra chips you need to buy or keep track of.

As far as add-ons go, I would always ensure you can cover one for every player in the game because if one person adds on many more may follow suit. You could cover add-ons with higher value chips as well if you wanted to.

In short, if you are running a 10 player game, maybe get enough starting chips to cover say 12 players and then enough higher value chips to allow for coloring up the entire field of play. This way you can use the coloring up chips for rebuys and add-ons and still have the higher value chips in play to make up the slop.

I sure hope this makes sense and does not come across as a crazy ramble.

[MiracleRiver]

Hi Wylecoyo

Thanks for your fast reply! I've been admiring the quote at the end of your postings... very true.

I won't bore you with the details of my deliberations, but I'll be using high-demnomination chips for rebuys and addons. Plus I've allowed for chips for color-ups.

The bottom line is that I will have enough high denomination chips for rebuys and addons to allow for a total of 15 rebuys and addons. ie: if I have a T1,000 tourney with 10 players, there will be 15,000 chips for rebuys and addons.

Assuming that half the players rebuy, and ALL addon once, that's just enough.

It sounds like I'm fairly safe?

I can always order some more chips if I have to I guess.

[Wylecoyo]

Sounds like you have thought things out pretty well and should be fine. As you said, you can always order some additional chips down the road if you need to, but I think your setup should be fine.

Again, welcome aboard - you will find a true wealth of information and assistance here because there are some truly smart people floating about. I am also glad you like my quote, it is one of my favorites. Take care.

[kimdol13]

We go with unlimited buy-ins the first hour and then only one more the second hour. None after that. Makes games last about 3 hours.

[tomb1]

I've been in a few tourneys with lots of rebuys. I wasn't running the tournaments so I don't have the actual figures, but it looked to me like at least one rebuy per player, maybe even 30 rebuys for 20 players. And then one add-on for just about everybody. So depending on the type of players and the cost of the buy-in, you might see a lot of additional chips.

It's also more complicated when you have rebuys before you color up your lower-denom chips. When someone busts out, it's tough to give them only high denoms -- they need regular chips to continue playing. So I've seen lots of low-denoms required for the original stacks plus the rebuys.

This is another reason to have fewer low denoms in your starting stack, and more medium denoms. You don't need to buy quite as many chips in total.

Good luck, and welcome!

[MiracleRiver]

maybe even 30 rebuys for 20 players. And then one add-on for just about everybody.

WOW! That sounds like fun. I think I will up the buyin to $50 and start taking a rake

To start with I'll just limit the buyins/addons to match my chips.

It's also more complicated when you have rebuys before you color up your lower-denom chips. When someone busts out, it's tough to give them only high denoms -- they need regular chips to continue playing.

I thought that it would be fine to give them high denoms - even before color-up - because they can exchange them at the table. There must be enough low denom chips at the table for 10 folks to play - as that's what they all started with.

I am going to buy 500 chips with these denoms:

200 x $5
160 x $25
80 x $100
36 x $500
24 x $1,000

My chip distribution for a T2,000 / $20 buyin tourney for 10 players will be:

20 x $5
16 x $25
5 x $100
2 x $500

That's 43 physical chips per player (a nice stack), a total of 430 physical chips.

I'll color-up the $5 and $25 at the same time using:

30 x $100 and
4 x $500

That's 34 physical chips, making a total of 464 physical chips. Leaving 36 phyisical chips for rebuys/addons:

12 x $500
24 x $1,000

That's a value of T30,000 - giving me 15 rebuys/addons at T2,000 a piece.

If I go for a T1,000 / $10 buyin, then I will have an extra 20 x $500 for rebuys/addons - making a total of T40,000 - giving me 20 rebuys/addons at T2,000 a piece.

Why make a $20 tourney T2,000 and not T1,000 you may ask?

Because with T2,000 you can get the true chip value by dividing by 100. ie: a $5 chip has a true value of 5¢. This does help folks - especially newbies - as they can see the true value of the chips infront of them.

And I don't want to go with no-value chips, as I think that having dollor value chips is really cool, together with the whole Las Vagas look.

But I can see why chipsets are available in 600's. Having those extra 100 chips or so can make all the difference.

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by MiracleRiver

WOW! That sounds like fun. I think I will up the buyin to $50 and start taking a rake.

There is a famous story about Daniel Negreanu busting out and re-buying something like 27 times in the beginning of one event, then going on to finish in the money. So you might expect some people to use the re-buy period as a chance to try anything!

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by MiracleRiver

I thought that it would be fine to give them high denoms - even before color-up - because they can exchange them at the table. There must be enough low denom chips at the table for 10 folks to play - as that's what they all started with.

Well, that could make for a lot of wasted time & distractions with always making change at the table. And some players don't like to give up their chips or make change at all. Theoretically, what you suggest SHOULD work, but with human nature it doesn't always make for a smooth game. It is easier on everybody (but takes more chips) if the rebuys look exactly like the original stack.

Originally Posted by MiracleRiver

My chip distribution for a T2,000 / $20 buyin tourney for 10 players will be:
20 x $5
16 x $25
5 x $100
2 x $500

You might want to consider fewer of the low denoms and more of the mid denoms. For example, 10/18/5/2 gives you T$2000 and still a nice stack of 35 chips. We've found that with blinds starting at 5/10, the $5 chips tend to get used only for blinds and limping, and people usually end up with extras they never use. Once you color them up, you have a bunch of chips you paid for and only used briefly. You can buy more medium chips and get more table value for the same amount of money you spend on your chips. (Or you can buy what you said and have more $5s for rebuys.)

With this 10/18/5/2 stack you can still buy a 500 set and have much more flexibility to go around.

100 x $5
200 x $25
100 x $100 (maybe a few more)
50 x $500
50 x $1,000 (maybe a few less if you buy more $100s)

This gives you lots of extras at the medium/high denoms for colors ups. It lets you race off all the $25s and still cover all the money on the table with 3 denoms for some exciting short-handed play -- without lots of useless $25s hanging around.

Originally Posted by MiracleRiver

And I don't want to go with no-value chips, as I think that having dollor value chips is really cool, together with the whole Las Vegas look.

Excellent choice. Without denoms, especially for newbies, you waste a lot of time asking, "what is this red chip again?" or having people place the wrong chips in the pot, got corrected by somebody else, and bet again. Denoms all the way for me, even if it limits your flexibility somewhat. (Can you get £ chips, or will you use $, or get chips with values but no currency sign?)

Just my 2p worth. After you run a few tourneys, you'll see what works for your group.

[MiracleRiver]

Well, that could make for a lot of wasted time & distractions with always making change at the table. And some players don't like to give up their chips or make change at all. Theoretically, what you suggest SHOULD work, but with human nature it doesn't always make for a smooth game.

Good point. But I have lots of newbies and not so experienced players - most folks are just in it for a fun night. I've found that players get really excited when the higher value chips come out! And those with big stacks like the kudos of the higher denom chips. Sad I know...

with blinds starting at 5/10, the $5 chips tend to get used only for blinds and limping, and people usually end up with extras they never use

Again, with my mix of players I have lots of call stations and limpers! It's fish soup! I have 75% betting before the flop! So we need them reds!

Can you get £ chips, or will you use $, or get chips with values but no currency sign?

WHAT???!!! Despite what you might read in the press, most folks over here (London, UK) know that the USA is the greatest country in the world. Having an evening round a poker table with Las Vegas Casino chips with the $$$ sign on them adds a whole new level of excitement and wonderment.

Have the ££ sign on them just ain't the same. Maybe a couple of hundred years ago when you folks were still a colony it might have been OK.

And can you believe that folks buy chips with the EURO symbol on them €€!!! Over my dead body