Betting Style Changes - Min Bets and 2x-2.5x Pre Flop

[DarPodo]

Hey all,

I'd like to open up discussion regarding betting strategy and new betting trends in poker. I scanned threads and couldn't find a dedicated one to this topic.

Ten years ago the standard raise was usually 3x the BB. That's what I'll usually raise anything pre flop as long as the table is somewhat deep. It does the trick in scaring most garbage out / keeping most players honest.

I have not played live / online for a few years now - just home games. Most of my friends I play with are not up to date either on new strategies - they practice the same style of betting we all learned from Norman Chad and the old WSOP broadcasts.

I read live updates on the WSOP and find there's this new (to me) style where people are raising less than 3x pre flop and re-raising min bets quite frequently with a decent range of hands (and of course those any-two-cards bluff attempts).

Is this the "small-ball" style that has taken over? Pot control, trying to 3-bet and 4-bet (or more) pre-flop to drive hands out? Is this the style that evokes a ton of play because of the EV involved? Is it just an online style of play that has taken over live play as well?

Sad to say I've probably gone from decent home game player to a novice player in general during the past few years. I've actually lost quite a few sessions in a row as of late, so maybe I'm reaching out to some fresh ideas. Any sort of light you guys can shed on the betting style of 2x-2.5x preflop and min bet raising would be of help for when I do sit down in a casino again (or my home games)!

[JM]

You're talking tournament strategy or cash strategy or both? I think this new min-raise betting style is mainly a tournament thing.

[DrStrange]

In the cash games I frequent, a 5x - 7x raise is normal, though 10x - 15x raises aren't shocking. A 3x raise is a pot sweetner. But that is just in a select group of games around here.

DrStrange

[Hender62]

Originally Posted by DrStrange

In the cash games I frequent, a 5x - 7x raise is normal, though 10x - 15x raises aren't shocking. A 3x raise is a pot sweetner. But that is just in a select group of games around here.

DrStrange

Ditto, in our $1/$2 game $10 -$14 is the normal opening raise unless you want a large pot. I will sometimes raise to $5 with a pocket pair on the button to juice up the pot in case I flop a set.

One thing I have noticed in Cash Games in 2012 is the emergence of the Donk Bet. Someone raises in position and the out of position player will bet the flop before allowing a C-Bet a lot of the times taking down the pot right there. This seems to be the rage in the Phoenix Area.

[TXGoodfella]

I do remember Bart Hanson saying something like this on how 2.5x raises being quite common in tourneys now. Also how min raises are more prevalent now then ever before. I guess its the trend now, perhaps it plays on pot control, and also helps in getting action when desired. I've also noticed on how bet sizing in also more skewed now in relation to the pot, with smaller bets being able to take down pots compared to cash. Anyone else wanna take?

[albie]

I think there's a few ideas at play & I don't think they're not so relevant to STTs or Cash or loose,easy games. Min-raises give you really good odds on your blind steals and help you stay afloat in an MTT but it never gets folded round to the hijack early in my games and min-raises tend to pick up 9 callers, we don't have antes so the price is less good. In my games nursing your stack through to the next double up then becoming a push-bot when the blinds are huge is the best plan I think.
Small bets mean more streets of play. If you consider yourself better post-flop than the rest of the table, you give them more chances to make wrong decisions by giving them more decisions to make. In RL MTTs where people have a significant amount of time & emotion invested in the game, players are more likely to make bad folds rather than risk their tournament life.
Small bets are more likely to win pots in tournies because you can't rebuy. On payout bubbles particularly, aggressive play builds stacks because people don't want to risk elimination just before the payouts go up. Small bets let you do this more frequently at lower risk.

[jldecarlo]

Originally Posted by DrStrange

In the cash games I frequent, a 5x - 7x raise is normal, though 10x - 15x raises aren't shocking. A 3x raise is a pot sweetner. But that is just in a select group of games around here.

DrStrange

I agree with Doc with regard to cash games. I don't play many tournaments, so I'm not that up on recent strategy, but I know lower raises pre-flop and min raises in general are more popular. As to why, you might have to post on 2+2 to find out.

We have one guy at my regular 1-2NL game - one of the better players, actually - who often open raises to $25-40 pre-flop. Rarely takes the pot down, too.

L

[snooptodd]

Definitely a tournament thing, especially as relative stacks get smaller and smaller. Chips get more and more valuable, and giving up a 2x-2.5x raise isn't as big a deal as a 3x-4x raise.

And because it takes less to 3-bet (maybe 5x instead of 8-10x) you can 3-bet lighter, and then 4-5 bet/jam when you actually have the goods. Also gives people room to play pots post-flop for less, especially if they feel like they have an edge post-flop.

[brdway_blu]

I'm probably just restating some of the previous info but.........3 betting light is now quite common in tournaments. Open-raising for 2 or 2.5x allows the original raiser to get away from their hand easier when they get reraised. The decision to fold is less painful than if they had committed more chips pre-flop. I guess this simply stated is pot control.

People stick around when the pot is inflated and they are getting great odds. Although a good tournament strategy usually dictates that you protect your stack, some players will call with any two if they believe the pot is laying a fair price.

[xswl]

In tournaments, I tend to raise 2.25-2.75x and rarely 3x unless that is the table standard. The reason is that someone who is calling 3x will call 2.5x (someone folding isn't suddenly going to call 2.5x) so no need to risk more preflop (I can get the same amount of info risking less chips) since I think I can outplay them on the flop. With a 2.5x raise, even the BB typically has to consider calling or folding where a 2x raise is almost always an autocall with any two cards from BB.