How constitues a legal raise?

[dad604]

I want a clarification of what is consider a raise when someone is allin. I believe that it is different between fix limit and NL. In limit, is it 50% and over. In NL, is it 100% (not even 99%)?

In limit 3/6 game, I bet $6, next player goes allin with $9. Is that a raise?

In NL, I bet $10, next player allin for $19. Is that a raise or not? Does it need to be allin for $20 to be consider a raise?

[xtwalker]

It's a question of house rules. Generally in NL you are correct, a player has to go all in for at least one full raise before it is considered a re-raise.

[retravoh]

in limit its possible for another player to "complete the bet" which is when a player goes allin for less than a legal raise and someone else has to complete his allin to the amount of a legal raise.

[ipgyst]

I use Robert's Rules of poker when I host a home game, with some modifications. It's been a couple years, but here's what I remember.

Originally Posted by dad604

I want a clarification of what is consider a raise when someone is allin. I believe that it is different between fix limit and NL. In limit, is it 50% and over. In NL, is it 100% (not even 99%)?

Your numbers are what I use. An all-in fixed limit raise is half or more of the bet. An all-in no limit raise must equal or exceed the amount of the minimum raise.

FL Example: I bet $10, next player goes all-in for $17, the player after can call $17 or raise to $27 but may not complete to $20. If some other players call the $17 and it comes back to me, I can raise because my $10 was raised.

FL Example: I bet $20, next player goes all-in for $26, the player after can call $26 or complete it to $40 but may not raise to $46. If $26 comes back to me, I can't raise because I was not raised.

NL Example: I bet $150, next player goes all-in for $250 (not a raise). The following players can call $250 or raise it by at least $150 (the amount I established with my first bet). If the bet is $250 when it gets back to me, I can't raise it because I was not raised.

Originally Posted by dad604

In limit 3/6 game, I bet $6, next player goes allin with $9. Is that a raise?

Yes that is a raise. The next person can call $9 or make it $15.

Originally Posted by dad604

In NL, I bet $10, next player allin for $19. Is that a raise or not? Does it need to be allin for $20 to be consider a raise?

$19 is not a raise. $20 or more would be a raise.

[ipgyst]

Originally Posted by retravoh

in limit its possible for another player to "complete the bet" which is when a player goes allin for less than a legal raise and someone else has to complete his allin to the amount of a legal raise.

Right. Somebody can complete the raise. I bet $10, somebody is all-in for $12, the next player call $12 or make it $20. If everybody calls the $12, I can't raise it when the action gets back to me. But if somebody completes the raise to $20, then I can reraise when it gets back to me.

[Slim7]

Originally Posted by ipgyst

Right. Somebody can complete the raise. I bet $10, somebody is all-in for $12, the next player call $12 or make it $20. If everybody calls the $12, I can't raise it when the action gets back to me. But if somebody completes the raise to $20, then I can reraise when it gets back to me.

I think the last point here is important... if it is not completed by someone else I cannot reraise..this has caused many disagreements in some home games. In no-limit, I have always played that a raise needs to be 100% or more otherwise the original raiser cannot reraise unless further action is taken by a player in between..if that makes sense

[Angry Jacks]

Straight from Robert's Rules:
5. In limit play, an all-in wager of less than half a bet does not reopen the betting for any player who has already acted and is in the pot for all previous bets. A player facing less than half a bet may fold, call, or complete the wager. An all-in wager of a half a bet or more is treated as a full bet, and a player may fold, call, or make a full raise. (An example of a full raise is on a $20 betting round, raising a $15 all-in bet to $35).
6. Any wager must be at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round, unless a player is going all-in.

3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already checked or called may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)

[ipgyst]

Originally Posted by Slim7

I think the last point here is important... if it is not completed by someone else I cannot reraise..this has caused many disagreements in some home games. In no-limit, I have always played that a raise needs to be 100% or more otherwise the original raiser cannot reraise unless further action is taken by a player in between..if that makes sense

Makes sense to me. Correct implementation is another thing.

[BigBlue]

Never gave it much thought. I have read through sections that covered it, but it has never been an issue in our home games.


From a strategy perspective, most all-in bets are called and checked down to help knock the all-in player out. Most, not all. The rest of them tend to be raised all-in by player 3 (2nd all-in-er) to isolate.

[dad604]

Originally Posted by BigBlue

Never gave it much thought. I have read through sections that covered it, but it has never been an issue in our home games.


From a strategy perspective, most all-in bets are called and checked down to help knock the all-in player out. Most, not all. The rest of them tend to be raised all-in by player 3 (2nd all-in-er) to isolate.

This is cash/ring game not tournament. No need for strategy to knock players out.