[CK15c]

Hey everyone. Not being 21 yet, I'm forced to play limit poker here in Minnesota. Not a terrible thing, but I'd like to try a no limit cash game. Anyways, there's a number of games around here (all hold'em), but some weird betting limits that I'd like your opinions on. Ie, which are the best structured games, what games are best for better players, and which games make no sense at all! In Minnesota, the max bet one can make in poker is $60, so the spreads that go to $60 are going to the max. Here are the games:

1. $2-$10 spread limit. I think this is the most common game in the state. Most people buy-in for $100, blinds are $1 and $2. In this game you can bet or raise anywhere from $2 to $10 following all the same minimum raise rules. I've never liked this game as it seems like it's not enough of a spread, and often it can become a $10/$10 limit game with people betting the max all of the time.

2. $2-20 spread limit. I've never played this, but have seen it a few times lately. I've also seen it as a $4-$20. Not sure what to make of this, but if it's like the $2-$10, I'm thinking it could become $20/$20 limit.

3. $2/$4, $3/$6, etc. Your typical limit game. It's played exclusively at Canterbury Park, but up North where I am, these games are not common at all. Once in a while they get played, but not often.

4. $5-$30 spread limit. Just saw this one down at Grand Casino Hinckley the other day. This doesn't seem to be enough of a spread either, but people were playing it.

5. $5-$60 spread limit. This red chip game was played in a few places and was even done on high stakes night at Black Bear when they used to play every week (they'd go back and forth from this and $10/$20 limit). I would think this would be okay, but I've never played this one. I did like the $10/$20 though!

6. $2-$60 spread limit. This has been new in the past few months. One place caps the buy-in on this game from $50 to $200, while another has the minimum at $200. I would say that this is as close to no limit as we could get around here and has the largest spread. I'm yet to play this game, but I'm thinking about it.

So, those are the games that I'm aware of around here. Any thoughts on any of them? Which one would be the best game for the better players? Thanks!

[Buzzerbeater]

What game format are you most comfortable with? I'm a better limit player than a no limit player, so when I go to the casino I usually play the 4/8 (in your case 3/6). But if you're more of a no limit player, the 2-60 or 5-60 might be the better choice. It won't play like no-limit, but it'll be the closest thing I'd imagine. With normal spread limit games where the max is around 5x the min, proper strategy is usually to bet the max whenever possible.

[CK15c]

Originally Posted by Buzzerbeater

What game format are you most comfortable with? I'm a better limit player than a no limit player, so when I go to the casino I usually play the 4/8 (in your case 3/6). But if you're more of a no limit player, the 2-60 or 5-60 might be the better choice. It won't play like no-limit, but it'll be the closest thing I'd imagine. With normal spread limit games where the max is around 5x the min, proper strategy is usually to bet the max whenever possible.

Being from around here, I've only ever played limit cash games. I have played a lot of no limit tournaments, but I'm sure it's completly different. I am comfortable playing limit, as long as it's $4/$8 and higher, but I'd have to drive several hours to find one of those games. So I figured before I can play in Wisconsin and play no limit, maybe I'd try to figure out how to play these spread games, but I'm thinking $2-$60 would probably be the best one to play (largest spread). Thanks!

[dad604]

I would say, stick to what to what you do best. Spread out into the spread limit game occassionally and see how well you do in those games. As you get better, you can play more and more of those games. I suggest starting at the lower limits and then move up as you improve.

[Harlequin011]

Yipes!

Spread limit holdem...

The biggest thing to consider is the rake. What is the rake for these games?

Does the $60 max bet rule mean that you can't raise if someone bets $60? Or if some one bets $40 the most you can raise is $20? Or can you raise a max of $60?

These games seem like they can be fun, but they futz with the pot odds. Seems a little volatile. If the rake is reasonable, just play the limit games. $10/$20 would be my poison.

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

Does the $60 max bet rule mean that you can't raise if someone bets $60? Or if some one bets $40 the most you can raise is $20? Or can you raise a max of $60?

It means that the most that can be bet on an individual action is $60...

Player A can bet between $2-$60 - lets say he bets $20...
player B can then call or raise up to $60 additional, making it anywhere from $40 to $80. - lets say he raised $40 to $60 total.
Player C can then call or raise up to $60 additional, making it anywhere from $100-$120.

Standard min raises apply.

WA has a $500 max bet rule, so all "No Limit" games are a x-$500 spread game. If you get over a $3-$5 blind structure that limit comes into effect quite often and it becomes a $500 limit game after a while.

I would guess that the players in the $5-$60 will have more money, and skill than the players in the $2-$60 game. I also imagine that it will quickly turn into a $60 limit game.

I think the $5-$60 would be my first try, and I would want to sit with at least a few bills in front of me.

Keep in mind that it may become difficult to protect your hand on the turn as the pot will almost always be at least $60 after action on the flop.

[Harlequin011]

Originally Posted by xtwalker

It means that the most that can be bet on an individual action is $60...

Player A can bet between $2-$60 - lets say he bets $20...
player B can then call or raise up to $60 additional, making it anywhere from $40 to $80. - lets say he raised $40 to $60 total.
Player C can then call or raise up to $60 additional, making it anywhere from $100-$120.

Standard min raises apply.

WA has a $500 max bet rule, so all "No Limit" games are a x-$500 spread game. If you get over a $3-$5 blind structure that limit comes into effect quite often and it becomes a $500 limit game after a while.

I would guess that the players in the $5-$60 will have more money, and skill than the players in the $2-$60 game. I also imagine that it will quickly turn into a $60 limit game.

I think the $5-$60 would be my first try, and I would want to sit with at least a few bills in front of me.

Keep in mind that it may become difficult to protect your hand on the turn as the pot will almost always be at least $60 after action on the flop.

Oh thats not as terrible as I thought. Thanks for the explanation.

I could have used that $500 max bet rule a couple of times. Doesn't sound to bad.

[CK15c]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

Yipes!

Spread limit holdem...

The biggest thing to consider is the rake. What is the rake for these games?

Does the $60 max bet rule mean that you can't raise if someone bets $60? Or if some one bets $40 the most you can raise is $20? Or can you raise a max of $60?

These games seem like they can be fun, but they futz with the pot odds. Seems a little volatile. If the rake is reasonable, just play the limit games. $10/$20 would be my poison.

The rake at most places would be $4 to the house and $1 to the bad beat jackpot. xtwalker's description of the betting structure was accurate. When I spoke to some people who had played in the $2-$60 game they said that it played like a $2-$10 preflop, but that you could protect your hand better against draws. I think I'll be able to play something on Wednesday as I'm heading to Grand Casino in Hinckley, MN for a tournament, and the cash games usually start when a few tables break. Still not sure what yet, but we shall see.

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

I could have used that $500 max bet rule a couple of times. Doesn't sound to bad.

I've only seen it make a significant difference a few times on the 3-5 tables.

(quick run-down of) My favorite example of the law is a pot where I had A9 on the button.

Flop AA3.
UTG bet out $30 into a ~$120 pot.
UTG +1 raises to $80.
I played with UTG several times and have a good read on him and am sure he has a small ace, but wasn't sure that UTG+1 didn't hit 33 for a boat, so I smooth call and wait to see what happens on the turn.
UTG raises to $280
UTG+1 folds.
I go all in for $781. $1 over the max bet. I didn't have any $1 chips so the dealer tossed me a $2 chip back and tells the other player he has to call $499 or fold.
UTG (eventually) calls and shows A4 to my A9.
Dealer turns a 6 and starts to deal the river when I stop him and announce I want to bet $2 on the turn, thereby giving UTG the best pot-ods in the history of the game: $2 into a ~$1700 pot.

K on the river and my 9 played.

[dad604]

$2 into a $1700 pot is fantastic pot odd but still +EV for you...