Advice on convincing players/host to increase stakes/change games

[AceDeuceNoUse]

First off, I am totally prepared to be chastised for stepping out of line. That said, hear me out:

I play in an bi-monthly old-timers game. I am a guest, but I have been dubbed the "young poker guy", as I have the most knowledge of the aesthetics of the game. We play .05-.25 spread-limit dealer's choice, using real coins. It's more of a social gathering, more for the food and fun than for winning real dough.

I have JUST convinced the house (coolest guy ever, lots of personal wealth, and an enthusiastic poker noob) to use Modianos instead of Bicycle cards (I bought him 2 decks of Cristallos as a gift). I think the Italian angle helped, seeing as he's a paisan w/a Ferrari in his primary garage - we play in his secondary garage/showroom/pool house (we play in the center of the room surrounded by classic cars - I have to avoid backing my chair into the mint condition royal blue 1939 Ford). I have also managed to convince everyone that using 2 decks and shuffling behind is better then using 1 deck and a battery-powered shuffler. The host has asked that I help keep everything straight, and he trusts my judgment on the rules and equipment.

The funny thing is, a few of these guys are real gamblers (perhaps not poker), and most of them are right at retirement age with a fair amount of personal wealth. One guy paid for his entire family's cruise with his on-ship craps winnings (not the first time he's accomplished this), and has been known to have $3000 swings in Vegas. Another guy says he was a registered (can you be registered?) professional gambler, and regularly plays $5-$25 spread limit stud when he's at the Plaza. I would think we could start 1 table of higher stakes (we're approaching 3 tables worth of players) and add some additional juice to the evening.

I have never tried to impose anything on the host, I've only offered my help when asked. I'm thinking of approaching the host with the idea of a bigger stakes table; anyone have advice on how to broach the topic? Some of the players are on the stodgy side ("chips? oh, no, I'll stick to my change..."), and will probably keep to the original setup, but I'm fairly certain I can get at least 5 players into a bigger game. All of these guys are buying in with about $20 in their loose change anyway, so I think I have some working room.

I'm thinking of a gradual step up, something like $.15-$.50 or $.25-$1 spread limit w/$20 minimum and $40 maximum buy-in, and graduating to chips (good excuse to show off my BCCs ). This is will be my base request. If I can squeeze them in, I'd like to also add these parameters:

• Rather than a new game per deal, I want to add a button and keep the same called game for a complete orbit.
• I want to reduce the number of kitchen table games (e.g. no more 7 card no-peek, no more Baseball) and move it closer to casino offerings. (may be tough)
• No more Jokers or wild cards. (this may be tougher)

I don't want to ruin the night for the regulars, but I also want to add a bit more of a challenge for those who want to play up a level (which I think will be the guys constantly slinging quarters around). I also don't want to piss off the host. He's still in his poker infancy (he keeps a poker-themed lotto scratcher tableside as a cheat sheet for hand rankings), and I don't want to make him nervous. It is his game, after all. If anyone has had experience in coaxing players/hosts up a notch, I'd appreciate some advice. Thanks!

[Harlequin011]

Start slowly...

Get the host off to the side or after/before a game and ask him how he feels about it.

People play the kitchen table games because thats what they like. I wouldn't go looking to get that changed. This is a dealer's choice venue, and it's pretty standard.

[hod]

Sounds... risky...

Like HQ says, these guys appear to like playing these games. As you've pointed out, they can afford to drop big bucks, so if they wanted to on these cards nights, would they not be doing so already?

However, I can't blame you for wanting to try, it's just that I can't help but think that it would be easier to find another game rather than teach several old dogs several new tricks.

That said, I doubt anyone else's game would have such cool surroundings!

[mirageII]

I would offer a game at your place with slightly higher stakes and see if people like it... if they do they may want to up the stakes at the regular game.


Just a thought

mirageII

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by mirageII

I would offer a game at your place with slightly higher stakes and see if people like it... if they do they may want to up the stakes at the regular game.

Ditto. It's tough to suggest something at someone else's game... but if you invite those guys to your place for a change, and bring out your BCC chips where the lowest denom is 25¢ and suggest 25¢-$1 spread-limit, and everyone gets to pick a game for an orbit of the button... then it'll at least give them a taste first.

[cpiaaq]

Why don't you just play at the local casino if you're looking for a more-like-a-casino game? You're the guest here and if you leave the game will surely go on without you. Personally I think your ideas of improving cards and chips are great, but I don't think you should touch the games. At all. If you want control over the thing then start hosting yourself.

My home game is like the old timers--7 card no peek, baseball and wild cards galore. I might just make up a game on the spot, with 4s wild, because I think I'm going to get dealt 4s this hand. And we have guests that only know hold 'em, want to raise the stakes and go "all-in." They either start enjoying the dealers choice madness or they don't return.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by cpiaaq

My home game is like the old timers--7 card no peek, baseball and wild cards galore. I might just make up a game on the spot, with 4s wild, because I think I'm going to get dealt 4s this hand. And we have guests that only know hold 'em, want to raise the stakes and go "all-in." They either start enjoying the dealers choice madness or they don't return.

I used to play dealer's choice back in highschool... can't imagine going back to a different game every hand! Besides, there are distinct advantages to being dealer in a lot of those games...

[BigBlue]

Interesting.

I might try a Hold 'em Tourney one night... small buy-in, just to give them a taste, and to let them play what they see on TV.

If the aren't Hold 'em fans, you could run a "casino" game night, and just play say 7-stud all night. See if they enjoy playing the same game all night.

Run all ideas past the host, I suspect you could convince at least a table full to play something else, and boost the stakes slightly.



We've moved from the $0.05-$0.25 spread dealers choice in college to $0.25-$1 spread, but it took 20 years I'd like to raise the stakes, but most people just play to play. The money is only a way to keep score. Perhaps it really is just a social thing for the majority.

[AceDeuceNoUse]

After reading your responses, and after some more contemplation, I'm inclined to agree that it's not my place to try and alter the dynamics of the game to a significant degree. I would try and host, but my digs are not nearly as nice, and frankly, that would just about kill any interest on the part of the regulars.

I will continue enjoy the game in the vein for which it was intended. I have a feeling that someone will bring up the idea of raising the stakes before I will; I'm content to wait until there's an open consensus before I offer any input. However, I will continue to call games within the HORSE spectrum (and yanking out the bug) on my deal, in the hopes of increasing interest amongst the field.

Luckily, there's plenty of casino/cardroom choices around L.A., for those times when I get the itch.

[DubleDex]

Yeah, it's tough to change a home game format, especially one that's been going on for a while. There are a lot of people who really play small stakes poker just for the fun and social aspect... it's a chance to get out of the house, drink some beers, hang out with friends and NOT invest a whole lot of cash (even if you have it available). And this game sounds just like that (although, 3 tables worth seems to be a lot... I'm surprised there aren't more people clamoring for higher stakes).

The best option is to host your own, non-competing, poker night. Not only will you be in complete control, it will give you a better idea of what it's actually like to host a poker night. With that experience, it's a lot easier to open up a conversation with the other guy. "When I had my home game, I tried X, X and X and it worked really well. You may want to think about that."

That way it sounds like you're trying to improve the poker environment, not change this guy's game to your liking.

Anyway, it sounds like a GREAT venue to be playing cards. Plus, even though the baseball and other dealer's choice games can be crazy, I think every kind of poker (within reason) improves your game. You see more hands, more variations... gets your brain working.