Rights or No Rights?

[Hokemon]

So, I've been following the image Copyright thread(s) and a fundamental question popped into my head. Rights or No Rights.

Scenario: An interested Chiptalker finally decides to invest in a custom set of chips and hires one of the many talented chip designers within this community. The chiptalker and the chip designer collaboratively work on the chiptalker's original design concept (with no copyrighted images), and each person contributes equally to the final design through many design iterations. The chip designer is paid for his work and the chips are made.

Question(s):
(1) Who legally owns the final design since it was really a collaborative effort?
(2) Who ultimately has the rights to use and display the image?
(3) Does the paying chiptalker have rights or no rights to the image?

[joshuadalton]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but from the standpoint of the chip manufacturer, who ever has ordered and paid for the chips is the owner of the design.

[sawmillthug]

copyrights, pattons, and trademarks have to be applied for/purchased. so, unless someone gets a trademark or copyright on his her design, it belongs to no one. if im wrong, chime in, but i think this is the case.

[noelsarchs]

The designer always owns the design.

The Owner of the chip only owns the right to get them made but owns no part of the original artwork, whether paid for or not.

Let me give you an example: If I design your house for you, you can build it once. You cannot sell it and build two more with the same plans without paying me for those plans again.

[Diablo_Rojos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
This wiki article may help clear some stuff up

[jamby]

Nope - the designer owns their design.

Originally Posted by joshuadalton

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but from the standpoint of the chip manufacturer, who ever has ordered and paid for the chips is the owner of the design.

[Hokemon]

Found these from the US Gov't site on copyrights http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc:

"The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time"

"Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright."

"The authors of a joint work are co-owners of the copyright in the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary."

So, it would seem J5 and I co-own the copyrights to my design "Elemental Poker Tour". Not that I plan on doing anything with the design other than play with my chips (J5 rocks by the way!)

Clearly in the case of my 3 US Patents, a long process involving lawyers is different than copyrighting a design.

[Magus 23]

Originally Posted by sawmillthug

copyrights, pattons, and trademarks have to be applied for/purchased. so, unless someone gets a trademark or copyright on his her design, it belongs to no one. if im wrong, chime in, but i think this is the case.

Actually no longer the case in terms of copyright law. Registration merely provides evidence (as in court proceedings), and may add strength to a claim, but legally speaking, copyright is automatically conferred to the creator (or other owner, as in the case of work for hire arrangements).

Of course, that doesn't help determine exactly who that copyright belongs to. But there's no state in which "nobody" owns the copyright.

Copyright law is extraordinarily complicated, and I've been dealing with it a lot in my day job. So beyond the occasional generalization, I'm mostly staying out of this one.

[noelsarchs]

Originally Posted by Hokemon

Found these from the US Gov't site on copyrights http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc:

"The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time"

"Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright."

"The authors of a joint work are co-owners of the copyright in the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary."

So, it would seem J5 and I co-own the copyrights to my design "Elemental Poker Tour". Not that I plan on doing anything with the design other than play with my chips (J5 rocks by the way!)

Clearly in the case of my 3 US Patents, a long process involving lawyers is different than copyrighting a design.

I do not agree at all. If J5 is the designer of hire, and you provide input into that design, he is still the designer. Unless you have actually contributed directly with your own hand in that final artwork, it's still his. You can give ideas, make sketches, etc. but he is the one producing the artwork.

[kmalsom]

It depends. The artist can relinquish the rights or keep them to any specific degree. Sometimes when you turn over the design you also turn over the rights (i.e. sidepots contests and customceramics.net). When dealing with someone it depends on the agreement between the designer and the person who they are designing for. If any of my 'customers' want the intelectual rights to their designs, I'll ususally hand them over.